Technical Support Contacts
North America, or call 1-800-872-4159 | Mexico | Latin America | Europe | Japan | South East Asia | Central Asia, Middle East, Africa | Oceania
Got a product suggestion? Let us know!


 
 
 
  PLEASE NOTE:
Effective Monday June 20th, 2011, we have moved our forum services to a new host.
User registration has already been closed and these forums are available as 'read-only'. For more information, please see our announcement posting.
If you require immediate technical assistance, please use the links above.
 
 

PioneerDJ Home Forums Home
    Pioneer ProDJ Forums    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Pioneer Related  Hop To Forums  Pioneer Mishmash    legato link?
Page 1 2 

Read-Only Read-Only Topic
Go
Find
Notify
Tools
legato link?
 Login/Join 
<olafmol>
posted   Report This Post  
Can anyone explain the theory behind that "legato link" technique?

Olaf

Pioneer Freak
Picture of KaraokeKarl
Location: Newport Beach
Registered: 05 April 1999
Posts: 6260
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
just do a search for legat link and there is a thread about that somewhere in here
Pioneer Freak
Picture of KaraokeKarl
Location: Newport Beach
Registered: 05 April 1999
Posts: 6260
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
<olafmol>
posted   Report This Post  
cool, thanx! i did a search but nothing came up....

so if i understand correctly legato link basically interpolates the steps inbetween 16 bit digital information and pumps this interpolated data out to the analogue outputs? so it's a process that is done inbetween the digital reading and the analogue output, integrated in the D/A convertor?

unfortunately the picture in the thread is a broken link, could you please repost it? i am very interested..

is this legato link technology something that was developed inhouse by pioneer, or is it a licensed algorithm like aphex exciter?

thanx, Olaf

Pioneer Freak
Picture of KaraokeKarl
Location: Newport Beach
Registered: 05 April 1999
Posts: 6260
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
CDJ-1000 Edification:

With the recent entry in the market of new CD Digital Turntables, it is important to remember some of the reasons the CDJ-1000 is the market leader and why it is found in every major club and used by every major top artist. One of those reasons is that the CDJ-1000 has the patented Legato Link Conversion technology. This Hi-Bit Legato Link Conversion found on all our table top CD Digital Vinyl Turntables makes CDs sound more like Vinyl. (warmer if you will). Only the Pioneer Digital Vinyl Turntables and new DVJ-X1 have this feature.

Explanation:

Hi-Bit Legato Link Conversion combines Pioneer-developed bit expansion technology with Legato Link for still better musical and accurate reproduction.

Bit Expansion

In the process of recording and mastering a CD. Low-level signals - signals lower than LSB (Least Significant Bit) of a CD�s 16-bit system - are removed. But the absence of low-level signals causes quantization noise, resulting in a reproduced sound which is unlike the original. Pioneer Hi-Bit Legato Link Conversion restores the lost signals by computing the original waveform from 16-bit data stored on the CD and performing re-quantization in expanded 24-bit data form. This conversion process results in a waveform which is both smoother and closer to the original than conventional technology allows.

Legato Link

Compact Discs contain signals representing frequencies up to 20kHZ: signals above that frequency are removed in the digitizing process. But music actually contains frequencies above 20kHz. The absence of these high frequencies can lead to inaccurate reproduction of the original music, making it sound harsh and unnatural. Legato Link extends the frequency response from 20kHz to 40kHz to ensure more accurate reproduction.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions regarding our products or the aforementioned technology.

Thank you
Karl
................................................................
"Karaoke Karl" Detken
Director of Product Planning - North America
P I O N E E R Electronics (USA), Inc. - Pro Audio Group
2265 East 220th St., Long Beach, CA 90810
Web: http://www.PioneerProDj.com E-Mail : Karl.Detken@pioneer-usa.com
................................................................


Pioneer Product Specialist
Picture of djjay
Location: SoCal
Registered: 02 July 2003
Posts: 10001
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
That Full sound you get in a Club with the 1000s is AWESOME.... Leave it to Pioneer to bolster the medium that we use with their products


Pioneer National Trainer & Product Specialist
Guest DJ
Location: Houston TX
Registered: 09 May 2002
Posts: 24
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
No doubt the CDJs sound good, but what is the use of extending the range up to 40khz? Human ears can't hear above 20khz, and speakers can't normally even reproduce that high.
Pioneer Product Specialist
Picture of djjay
Location: SoCal
Registered: 02 July 2003
Posts: 10001
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
If you ever get a chance to hear a CDJ vs another type of CD player through a big system, you'll see what they mean. The accurate reproduction, and all of the original nuances of the CD are enhanced by the 1000. I always describe it a a Full or Warm sound, especially through a big system in a Club. You can notice with non CDJ 1000 players how you just don't quite hit the highs and lows as well.

Pioneer exceeds the 20khz so as to establish a point where tonality and referece sounds can occur.


Pioneer National Trainer & Product Specialist
Pioneer Freak
Picture of KaraokeKarl
Location: Newport Beach
Registered: 05 April 1999
Posts: 6260
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
Yeah what Jay said

Yes it is true the human ear cannot hear over or under a certain frequency but it CAN "feel" the sound in a big hi fi sound system. That is why there was always the complaint that Vinyl sounded better than CD (until the 1000s came along). You can't hear it but if you put in on a spectrum analyzer you can SEE it.
Resident DJ
Picture of DJ_Vision
Location: Birthplace of House
Registered: 23 August 2002
Posts: 209
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
Hmmm... I still prefer the sound coming from my nearly 20 year-old techs vs. CDJ-1000s in a big hi-fi sound system.
Pioneer Product Specialist
Picture of Pulse
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 24 October 2006
Posts: 33876
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
Dood, after 20 years it's time to change your styli.


Pioneer National Trainer // Product Specialist
Pioneer Product Specialist
Picture of djjay
Location: SoCal
Registered: 02 July 2003
Posts: 10001
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
The CDJ is that warm ambience that "analog" vinyl has. That sound that you "feel", as Karl pointed out. Pioneer realizes that as times change, quaility of the experience doesn't have to, hence the legato link with the CDJ 1000.



The point is simple, do you have to feel the music as you do with vinyl, but want the convienence of CD technology; Pioneers CDJ1000 allows you that luxury!


Pioneer National Trainer & Product Specialist
Pioneer Product Specialist
Picture of Pulse
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 24 October 2006
Posts: 33876
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
"It's like warm apple pie..."


Pioneer National Trainer // Product Specialist
Pioneer Fanatic
Location: Connecticut
Registered: 17 February 2004
Posts: 1671
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
Quote:

Hmmm... I still prefer the sound coming from my nearly 20 year-old techs vs. CDJ-1000s in a big hi-fi sound system.



That's what this whole post topic is about. Everyone prefers that warm sound that is usually created from analog. The point Karl is trying to make is Pio comes the closest to matching it.
Pioneer Addict
Picture of DJMaverick
Location: Dirty South, USA
Registered: 05 February 2002
Posts: 3694
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
Yeah the sound is much "warmer"
Pioneer Fanatic
Location: Pioneers Old Forum
Registered: 17 July 2002
Posts: 1328
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
Quote:

"It's like warm apple pie..."




Pulse, Tell me your mom didn't catch you doing "that" to your CDJ?????????
Pioneer Product Specialist
Picture of djjay
Location: SoCal
Registered: 02 July 2003
Posts: 10001
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  


Pioneer National Trainer & Product Specialist
Pioneer Product Specialist
Picture of djjay
Location: SoCal
Registered: 02 July 2003
Posts: 10001
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
The best way I can describe it is that even though your gear is running at 20hz, you are losing some of it when you play CDs. It's not a volume issue until you start to hear the "warmth" that Vinyl gives. A record has a scertain feel within the sound, the 1000 is set-up to reproduce that warmth in the tonality and overall reproduction.

You notice it best when your playing Vinyl against a CD player. The CDJs have that same sound, while a regular CD player will be off by a bit. I hope that helps....


Pioneer National Trainer & Product Specialist
Pioneer Addict
Location: iwantacustomtitle
Registered: 17 December 1999
Posts: 4293
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
i dont buy the legato link makes the cd's sound better arguement either. its basically bit interpolation right? so its recognising the limitation to the scale at which 16bit music can sample frequencies and therefore taking a "guess" as to what would be between each of those slices and adds it to the output? remember you can't "add" something to the music from a cd that wasnt there during mastering without adding noise. side by side testing a cdj 800 just then and an el cheapo rack unit i could not audibly tell the difference in the sound (in terms of "warmth") between the two units. not saying the 800 is crap, quit to the contrary, its sound is cleaner in terms of base noise in the system (ie: s/n-r of the output), i just can't hear any more "warmth" in its output. oh and for what its worth i preffer the accurate reproduction of digital sound to the "warmth" of vinyl.
Pioneer Product Specialist
Picture of Pulse
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 24 October 2006
Posts: 33876
posted   Hide PostReport This Post  
Enter the g33k world of Pulse... Here's what Legato Link really does, but first a bit of background is required.



The human ear doesn't "hear" all sounds equally because the threshold of hearing isno't constant over the range of audible frequencies. Things like a CD player or amplifier or microphone are considered to have a "flat" (or linear) response. (A flat response is where the input and output apmplitudes have the same ratio at all signal levels.) Lucky for us, the human ear is non-linear; we're more sensitive to frequencies around the 3k-4k range (normal human speech range).



This means A 60Hz tone at 80dB doesn't sound the same as 4kHz tone at 80dB; the 60Hz would sound much quieter to us.



Here's a Fletcher Munson Equal loudness contour which shows the average sensitivity to various frequencies at different levels.







(To understand the graph above, pick a line and follow it - say the one with 20Hz @ 120dB... follow that line to 3kHz - it meets at 80dB. This means that in order for a 20Hz sound to appear as loud as a 3kHz sound, it must be 40dB louder!)



Let's take a look at some of the numbers presented for phono pickups:



Shure V15VxMR (audiophile) - flat from 10 to 25,000 Hz

Shure M92E (home user) - flat from 20 to 18,000 Hz

Shure Whitelabel (DJ) - 20-20,000Hz

Shure MP44 (DJ) - essentially flat from 20 to 17,000 Hz



Not all of these turntable pickups ARE flat, nor do the DJ series (especially the MP44) extend to 20kHz (not that it matters, most people can't hear 17kHz+ anyhow).



This took some digging to find a decent, clean graph (apparently the companies who make non-audiophile equipment don't think people may want to see a frequency response curve of their gear) ... this is a Shure V15VxMR cartridge (black line):







The red and blue lines I've added to show potential curves for other types and brands of phono pickups.



As you can see, there may be a bit of colouration (the term used for not-flat), some of it more frienly to the human ear curve. The reason our ears like this "warm vinyl sound" is because of the matching of curves.



Have you ever flipped the "Loudness" switch on a stereo and said "Gee, that sounds ... better!", that's because the loudness switch raises the low and mid-low frequencies to better match your hearing contour.



So where was this all going? Legato Link!



I'm no Japanese-guy-in-a-white-lab-coat, but I'm thinking they have DSPs which process the audio in such a way that it's pulling a "Loudness switch" on us - it's essentially contouring the sound to be more friendly to our ears, like vinyl.


Pioneer National Trainer // Product Specialist
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  

Read-Only Read-Only Topic

    Pioneer ProDJ Forums    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Pioneer Related  Hop To Forums  Pioneer Mishmash    legato link?